Yuri Talk: Feminist Defense of Girls Club And Yuri Anime (By MithrandirOlorin) + Yuri and Melancholy (By Shoujo Aisha)

Lucky Star

First of all here’s an editorial by MithrandirOlorin arguing why Girls Club and Yuri shows shouldn’t be looked down upon. Check it out by clicking on the link below.

LINK

Maria-sama ga Miteru

Second we have a short and sweet article by Shoujo Aisha discussing her connection to yuri anime and manga of old and how they have evolved yet still pertain some elements of old ways.

LINK

About OG-Man

Yuri and Slice of Life are my anime passion.
This entry was posted in Yuri Talk and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

15 Responses to Yuri Talk: Feminist Defense of Girls Club And Yuri Anime (By MithrandirOlorin) + Yuri and Melancholy (By Shoujo Aisha)

  1. WOW, Thank You, when I tweeted it to you I didn’t think you’d actually feature it on the Blog.

    Thanks.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Reapy_s0ul says:

    @MithrandirOlorin (others are also welcome to read several paragraphs of my shit opinions)

    Jared could’ve left out the opinion piece aspect of the article, it’s quite the massive text wall despite having a lack of actual substance.

    TLDR: If you like anime with male characters and masculinity that isn’t yaoi, you’re the patriarchy, also society is oppressing everyone I support.

    I don’t want to seem like I’m strawmanning, even though I’m not, so I’ll elaborate…
    Well-constructed feminist arguments don’t exist, the entire ideology of modern intersectional 3rd-wave western feminism is based around the flawed and unrealistic idea that everything is oppressive to women or minority groups on some level, it’s an absurd collectivist totalitarian religion at this point, it’s not unlike fascism in terms of structure (an identity-based dictatorship where dissenting opinions are publicly shamed or even forcibly silenced and people of certain groups have inherently more power than others).

    Offence is never given, only taken; making the decision to perceive hatred in every single facet of life is not only unhealthy, it’s childish and encourages cult-like behavior where “wrongthink” is prohibited in order to preserve feelings (see “safe spaces” in universities).

    People shouldn’t be treated differently because of their identity, whether that be positive or negative discrimination, not talking about or placing importance on identity is the best way to end bigotry, hands down, as long as it’s propagated in modern debate, these issues will never secede.

    Now that my stance(s) is out there, I can actually start criticizing the article.

    Firstly, I can only speak for my opinion on the matter, I won’t pretend that I speak for an audience or community, I only side with myself on these matters, as other people have at least one opinion on the matter that gives me conniptions.

    I’ll try to make this short, as the post is already quite long:
    You’re over-complicating things, like I said before, seeing sexism in literally every facet of life is an awful way to live, just let the shows be the way they are and accept that certain franchises will have casts that fit the universe rather than focusing on absurd ideas like inclusiveness, you’re looking at entertainment like it’s a political piece rather than something to have fun watching, as it should be, it seems to me like you’ve been brainwashed to only look at things from a regressive (fancy buzzword for replacing “progressive”) perspective rather than one of a sane person.

    I did a quick google search of the “Bechdel Test”, and it’s frankly quite bigoted and absurd, the idea that something only passes when a certain amount of “diversity” has been reached is blatantly discriminatory and proves beyond a doubt that progressives only see “oppressed peoples” as chess pieces for achieving their own agendas, people who actually care about not discriminating don’t put shit like this into action, true lack of discrimination is picking actors and cast members based on merit and/or whether or not they fit well into the universe (example: Morgan Freeman is a godlike narrator, but he wouldn’t fit well with a Monty Python film).

    The idea of toxic masculinity is something I see brought up very often by feminist speakers and ideologues; I, unsurprisingly I’m sure, reject the idea as a whole, I think it’s absurd to think that men being men (and women being women, for that matter) is an inherently bad thing (and vice versa, but I’ll get back to that later), it all comes back to the totalitarian identitarian roots of your ideology, you associate certain parameters with being “negative” and attempt to push those parameters back with overwhelming force despite not having any self-consciousness.

    Continuing off of the above line, I also think that “gender norms” as you would call them are also not the way to go about it, the most individualist option, where society literally doesn’t give a single fuck about identity as an idea, is the best possible solution to the entire “bigotry” debate, is ending the debate full-stop, not talking about identity, it should just be a normal fucking thing in society’s eyes for people to want to diddle people of the same sex, yet people are still fucking bringing it up.

    TL;DR, what matters is who you are and what you do, not who you’re attracted to and what you look like.

    I was going to address more, but I’m getting bored of typing and anything else I type is going to make my post seem repetitive since I’d just be hammering the same points.

    Conclusion:

    You don’t care about diversity or helping people who need it, you only care about statistics and having enough people with [x] skin color or [y] sexuality in roles to satisfy some totalitarian quota.

    Call me a puritan or what have you, but this level of blatant hypocrisy sickens me.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate you as a person, that would go against my principles, rather…
    I hate everything you stand for and believe in, I actually quite like you, if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be trying to change your mind, I would just be arbitrarily insulting your character rather than actually addressing your arguments (not that there are many to address).

    PS: I genuinely hope I’m able to change some minds with this, I see these typical “feminist” arguments so often and it scares me, just thinking that this is what political discourse has devolved into gives me some serious fucking conniptions.

    Liked by 2 people

    • I did not actually criticize any Masculine Anime, just stated that the hate of Cute Girls show began with Anime Fans who think that stuff is all Anime should be.

      A good video on Toxic Masculinity would be Folding Ideas video on Fight Club which is on YouTube. It’s not about saying all Masculine traits are bad. Utena’s character development is about embracing positive masculinity and rejecting the Toxic.

      Liked by 5 people

    • turbo feminazi from space says:

      I genuinely hope I’m able to change some minds with this

      Lmao, you litteraly copy-pasted every anti-feminist talking points you could find, and it’s just a bunch of affirmations without any kind of deductive or inductive reasoning.

      Liked by 1 person

      • You did not use the term “copy-pasted” literally, that is supposed to mean where is like a full paragraph I word for word copied form a specific earlier source.

        I am a Feminist, but I don’t see why my defending Yuri is somehow offending people on a Yuri blog.

        Like

  3. kracen says:

    That was painful to read… But then again, anything written by a third wave feminist is bound to be… If there was any actual evidence for any claim in there about the apparently homophobia and misogyny I’d be less inclined to want to hit my head against my desk in frustration.

    Products are designed to be sold, regardless of gender, they want people to buy their product regardless of who they are, the fact that anime and computer games tend to favour males in advertising and content is because men are more likely to put their money into these things.
    If there were blue hermaphrodites from Neptune willing to buy these products, you’d see the marketing change because the market doesn’t care what colour you are, whether you are male of female, where you’re attracted to either men or women, the only thing they care about is the colour green.
    People like what they like… Why do people who are meant to be adults feel the need to internally gender lock things when it is entirely their choice to decide… If I want to watch people beat the crap out of each other in giant robots, I’m going to do it, If I want to watch adorable girls do gay things at each other, I’m going to watch that to, regardless of who it was written for and who it was written by because it is my choice regardless of what other people think.
    Not everything is written for everyone in mind, consume the content you like, pass over the stuff you don’t… its not difficult.

    Like

    • You Red Pill types sure are irrationally defensive. I made that post to defend something current “Third Wave Feminists” usually attack.

      Liked by 2 people

      • kracen says:

        Originally I’d call it irrational as well, but considering how these people are starting to influence markets they have absolutely no financial or emotional investment in for the sake of their ideology, it is far from irrational anymore.
        Plus I wouldn’t even call it a defence… It was more of a list of buzz words, a test which has no practical value other than being bigoted in itself and more buzz words.

        Like

      • It so happens I’ve been banned from commenting on THeMarySue. My article is not a mainstream Feminist perspective.

        Like

      • kracen says:

        Yet you still subscribe to terminology they use which are either factually inaccurate or descriptively inaccurate that make women look like they’re unable to control their own emotions and that toxic masculinity is a real thing.

        Like

      • I know Toxic Masculinity is a real thing because I’ve experienced it.

        Like

  4. Pozapie says:

    It seems MithrandirOlorin’s article was not read at all (by a few folks above) beyond the title. So, I’d just like to talk about how I feel about it. What Jared was saying, was that “Girls cast” (regardless of Yuri level) shows are great, and are actually pretty feminist overall in a sense. So, it’d be nice if the so called “Feminists” quit bashing these shows for the dumbest reasons (like how she is shaped, size of boobs, being “too sexy” (male gaze), or too “moe”..etc..)

    And I’m very inclined to agree with that. “Girl Casts” shows are my absolute favorite of all shows! Now these shows are mostly seinen-aimed. And my personal opinion, is that ironically, due to the demographic aim, they became more friendly towards the portrayal of female characters. In society, patriarchy is valued the most, where largely, only this system is deemed worthy of any/all value of worth.

    In turn, this leads to the effecting presentation of these shows. Now, Japan’s culture is different. In that, the crowd aren’t extremely concerned (beyond preferences), of the gender of a given’s show’s protagonist and it’s main characters, as long as they are relatable. This leads to a wide variety of shows with different cast set-ups (including our favorite, “Girls cast”!).

    In these “Girls casts” shows, they center around the female protagonist and the surrounding female main characters. They often focus majorly on the development of the plot (whether it’s an exciting action/comedy, relaxing slice-of-life or thrilling darker themed one), plus high character development keyly between the girls. Between the girls (on the good side, for example), there is loyalty, deep affection, always caring about protecting each other, giving and sacrifice for each other, sometimes passion (yay for us Yuri fans, when it happens!), light-hearted laugh-a-long fun moments, friendly rivalry, striving together as team (not because of “girl-power” ideology, but of true-hearted caring, because she is important as her own person with them), plus some fanservice (of varying degrees) for the audience. Usually, there is no BxG romance, and when it happens, it’s usually naturally blended into the show, instead of over-taking the whole plot. The show is almost always focused on the plot first & character development between the girls.

    As such, it actually winds up passing the “Bechdel Test”, with near flying colors or high scores, even though the shows were never made from that POV. And it’s because these themes are relatable to a seinen audience. Themes of value, comradeship, human bonding, teamwork, loyalty. Themes that are also well-portrayed between male characters (minus Yaoi, unless shoujo/josei aimed). They are very common ground.

    This is different from so called “female aimed” live-action shows, for example. Where the characters (largely female characters), 9 out of 10, are always bitching/back-stabbing against each other over some superficial nonsense. There is very little bonding except for equally superficial rubbish, or it’s to sequester themselves into back-up 2 by 2 teams to protect/side each other solely for the acquisition of a male love interest. And they seem to have no life except to have it orbiting around the LI. Even in normal harem anime, the girls are deeply invested in the wider plot in complete equal measure to the male lead.

    So, you tell me, which type of show is better or healthier? The top or the bottom? Goes without saying, it’s the top. I think these type of feminists suffer from internalized misogyny (but fail to realize it). Where due to being too ingrained to the “bottom” shows and the way it’s thought them to view characters, they get straight-away hung-up on the female character’s physical appearance (superficial reflex), and can’t see anything else. But, of course, when you start converting all the female charcters into bishounnen, even though the characters were doing the very exact same thing as the girl cast, suddenly now their vision is magically cleared and they can start seeing things. It’s hypocritical. But anyway, most anime feminists are not “Girls cast” or Yuri fans.

    So, in conclusion, “Girls Cast”/”Girls Clubs” shows rules, and are great for Yuri fans too! 😀

    Liked by 7 people

    • Thank You.

      One Western show that does come clsoe to handling it’s female cast as well as my favorite Anime is Pretty Little Liars. The need to pander to Het Shippers ruins it often, but it’s still a show with a true bond between it’s 4 main female characters.

      Like

  5. B-M says:

    I read it a couple of days ago but honestly didn’t think there’d be such negative backlash. I thought this community would pretty much just nod. Maybe they didn’t read it? It was a well put-together article, really criticising overly-radicalised feminists that are blinded superficially, and only occasionally criticising the West’s culture of misandry. Obviously there are more pro and more negative girls-cast shows, but shows like K-On!, GochiUsa, Yuru-Yuri are overly-sweetening the female experience but never making it a negative portrayal.

    Also, I get a little sick sometimes reading some pro-yuri articles where the author uses the word “male-gaze” or “pandering” every other sentence (not naming anybody, but you probably know 1-2 who fit the description). It sometimes feel like they have a predisposed hatred to certain things, especially as other times the same author is free to let things off the hook for the same thing.

    I’m not a huge fan of fanservice myself, but I don’t tend to let it affect my viewing unless it’s ridiculously long-shots/silly body proportions etc. Girls cast shows sometimes have these but in my experience not too bad – not compared to other anime lol.

    Ultimately, I’d definitely consider moe shows the most pro-feminist genre, though there are some shows which are just pro-feminist masterpieces (Utena, Yuri Kuma Arashi, Psycho-Pass and a few others). I’d also wager that, outside of harems, I haven’t seen too many sexistly portrayed female characters. Woo! Go anime!

    (though seriously, Japan needs to stop expecting “perfect women” to be “wives” that cook, clean, raise children etc. They’re getting better, but I absolutely hatehatehate seeing the phrase “you’ll make a great wife” anywhere but yuri where it’s used to prompt gaynst)

    Liked by 1 person

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s